The Exchange: Episode 23 - The Coffee Roaster & Scary Physical Defects - Part 1
Welcome to our second annual Halloween episode. Once again we are talking about "Scary" defects but this time it's physical defects and, of course, scary movies.
Available on iTunes and Full Transcript Below
The Exchange is Presented by Olam Specialty Coffee
Hosted by Mark Inman and Todd Mackey
Directed by Mike Ferguson
All music is used under Creative Commons:
Email Mark and Todd with thoughts and questions:
Mike: Welcome to the second annual Halloween episode of The Exchange, presented by Olam Specialty Coffee, hosted by Mark "Hitchhiking through England" Inman and Todd "Don't touch my car" Mackey. I'm Mike Ferguson. Once again, we are talking about scary defects. This time, scary physical defects. And, well, the movies. And now here they are. Siskel and Ebert.
Mark: Welcome to The Exchange, a podcast by Olam Specialty Coffee. This is our special spooky Halloween episode. And always with me is my co-host and good friend, Tom Mackey. Todd... Happy Halloween.
Todd: Happy Halloween to you, Mark. It's awesome to be here. Scary defects... You know, it's a rare day time recording session for us. And...
Mark: Yes, it is.
Todd: I'm really... I'm leaning in because, you know, this time of the year, as the trees are changing, and I'm just sitting here atop Cobble Hill in Lincoln, Rhode Island, overlooking a slew of oak and maple trees, it feels alive, and it does feel spooky as we're really amidst that classic autumnal season. But I just want to bring up at the gate, most of our listeners are probably unaware, but you... And this is Halloween and beyond, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're a collector of fine costumes, am I right?
Mark: Yes. Yes, I am.
Todd: All right. Can you give our listeners... Give us a sense of like how deep this runs. I mean, you have closets full. Are we talking like a third party storage units, as well? And what do you break these out for?
Mark: I have trunks of costumes. I take Halloween pretty deadly serious. Which is interesting because my son, since he's been five, couldn't care less about the holiday. So, yeah, every year starting in June, I plan the year's Halloween costume. Now I have the made. I have made to measure.
Todd: You do not.
Mark: And each year...
Todd: You have these tailored?
Mark: I do. I'm not kidding.
Todd: Wow. It's crazy. Let's take this into our usual opening segment of what's in your cup or glass. Whatever that may be. This should be interesting. It's a different time than we usually record. What are you drinking?
Mark: It's Sunday morning still here. Yeah.
Todd: Yeah. Yeah. I assume you're having some sort of brunch with us right now. You have an omelet station set up there?
Mark: Right. Yeah. I have an omelet station here at work and a little mimosa. No, Todd, that's not how I live. {laughter} I know you like to believe that, but I'm working on a project right now with a client who is launching a line of fitness oriented coffee, a supplement oriented coffee line that would be similar to pre-workout and post-workout powder drinks you see out there, and some of these pre-workout things have like 300 milligrams of caffeine and beta alanine, and Creatine and BCAAs all mixed in. But if you've ever taken that stuff, it is 300 milligrams of caffeine is about five or six cups of coffee. So it's an intense hit if you do that stuff to go to the gym. And I think that that, for the most part, is very unnecessary. So I've worked on formulating this coffee beverage that they will actually turn into a soluble that you could pour into cold water and shake up at the gym. So this is sort of at the end of the road of the development phase. It is a blend using... It has about three times the caffeine of a normal cup of Arabica coffee. It uses a very high end wash robusta mixed with some Arabica. All organic, and it's quite good, but it's a lot of caffeine. So I am on cup number two. So it's you know, if I'm a chatterbox today, Todd, you know why.
Todd: And we have a shot to get a single episode in under time.
Mark: Yes.
Todd: Yeah. No. Interestingly enough, I'm here, and it's a bit out of step with my usual. But I'm just going to share what's real. It's, you know, Sunday afternoon here. I've done a few projects around the house just to kind of get the day along, and I'm drinking and unsweetened ginger, peach, sparkling water.
Mark: I don't even know how to respond to that. {laughter}
Todd: It's delicious and refreshing. So with that in mind, let's get into our spooky, scary defects Halloween special. And as we did last year... I should say as you did last year.
Mark: Yes, sir.
Todd: You've graciously offered to pair each of the physical defects. So we're focusing on physical defects in green grading. You've offered to pair these again with an entirely new set of scary films from across film history. So thank you in advance, and I cannot wait to hear what you've come up.
Mark: And this is in line with our new sponsor, Blockbuster Video, who is a proud sponsor of The Exchange. All of these movies that we will talk about today can be found at your local Blockbuster. Mention Todd and Mark, and you'll get 20% off a scary movie, right? Do we get a sponsor? No, we didn't get a sponsor.
Todd: I hope there's a Blockbuster Video somewhere. I mean, I understand that there's like a location left in somewhere in Alaska, but who knows?
Mark: Well, if you are in Alaska mentioned Todd and Mark for 10% off..
Todd: Go get it. It's drastically reduced in 30 seconds.
Mark: Oh, that's right. I said twenty earlier. Sorry, 20% off.
Todd: You got to know, you got a book with with Mark right away. Or the price goes up.
Mark: Right away. Shifting deals. {laughter}
Todd: {laughter} Awesome. Well, like I said, we are going to focus on green physical defects.
Mark: Right. Last year was taste defects.
Todd: Correct. And by no stretch are we going to forego correlating some of these physical defects with potential cup outcomes. But we wanted to essentially go through the SCA wash Arabica green coffee defect guide as just a discussion starter for what you might see in a green coffee sample as you are evaluating and considering a use, placement, and/or purchase. Important thing to talk about at the gate, of course, is what is a standard sample size? So to just take a moment, we're again talking strictly through the lens of SCA sampling procedure which calls for a 350 gram sample. It's important to note that all of these defects that we're gonna talk about are recognized and classified according to not only SCA standard, but also the Green Coffee Association of New York and international bodies such as the Colombian Coffee Federation, Ethiopian Commodity Exchange, so on and so forth. So they may be classified differently in terms of the national grades for export, but they're going to be recognized. And of course, the causes, in terms of where they're coming from and their origins are very, very similar. So just keep that in mind as we go through. And again, the important place to start is that we have 350 grams of green coffee.
Mark: Yes.
Todd: From here, we break down the green physical defects into two types, according to the SCA standard, and this is Category 1 and Category 2 also often detailed as primary or secondary. Now we'll start with the scariest of defects, which are the primary defects, of course. And to kick us off, we are going to start with the full black defect. Now just get us... Put a little wind in our sails, Mark. What are we talking about when we talk about a Hollywood film, scary film for the full black defect?
Mark: Well, when I think of a full black defect, I'm thinking of the kind of murky, musty, kind of swampy flavors that you can get in a full black defect. And nothing captures that more than the 1954 black and white 3-D monster movie "The Creature from the Black Lagoon."
Todd: {laughter} You're so good at this.
Mark: Which 3-D black and white to me is a real amazing feat. I don't know how they pulled it off, but it was a 3-D movie back in 1954.
Todd: Yeah. I mean, how did they?
Mark: I don't have a clue.
Todd: It's like a different technology? Different type of glasses you would have used? I mean, you were of age then.
Mark: Yeah. I was in high school then. Sure. {laughter} No, Todd, I was not even born yet. My parents were born, but... Yeah. No, I don't know how they did it. But anyway, it fits that tasty fact perfectly. That was one of the easiest ones to match up here.
Todd: Most definitely. Most definitely. And full black defect is very easy to physically identify, as our co-worker and friend Rob Steven, who actually had a hand in writing this classification guide, always says, you know, black is black. And when you are grading a sample, you can quite literally ask yourself, "Is this seed, this coffee bean black? Is it yellow? Is it brown? Is it red?" If it's anything other than black, it is not a full black. And the reason to be cautious here is that a full black is a 1 to 1 full equivalent primary defect, meaning that if you find one full black bean, you have disqualified the coffee for SCA's specialty grade. So the reason is, as Mark, you know, aptly pointed out, this is a big threat to cup quality, musty flavors, over fermented flavors, all sorts of potential mold characteristics in a strong correlation to the phenol cup defect, which of course is never pleasant, that sort of pool water taste. This is something that most typically will occur when coffee is left to over ferment in the cherry on the trees. It's an agricultural issue, of course. And the blackening does come from the fermented pigment, you know, with the effect of micro-organisms and high moisture and sugar content on the tree. But this also, beyond just the risk in the cup, also has an acro toxin risk, which take it or leave it is something real and something to look out for. So full black 1 to 1 primary defect, a total disqualifier.
Mark: Right.
Todd: But much like the full black, we have what's called a full sour.
Mark: Yes.
Todd: Now, full sour is potentially like most likely those other beans that you might have thought were black...the yellow, red, orange colored seeds, fully covered through and through. Often new graders will see a discoloration in the silver skin on the outside of the seed, in specific for honey coffee or naturally processed coffee. The cheat here, when you're grading the sample is to just turn that being over, rub it on your grading matt, or on a sheet of paper, or the table, or what have you, even use your fingernail, and if that color is coming off, that's just the color of the silver skin. And that's, of course, not the sour defect. Additionally, a good way to detect sour is that often the embryo of the seed has turned and/or fallen out. So at the very top of the rounded back of the seed opposite the center cut, you would have the embryo, or what would become the shoot for the new plant, and souring would essentially happen as this has gone off and fallen out or is soon to be. So you can look for that sort of discoloration at the top. You know, usually when you see this partially, you see it on that side and around that piece, as well. Partial sour. Where do you put us in terms of a scary movie for this one, Mark?
Mark: No, that's a full sour, not partial sour.
Todd: Oh sorry. Full Sour. Excuse me. We'll get there. We'll get there.
Mark: Well, so this one... Where I get this is the 1983 Stephen King thriller, "Christine." The character Arnie, as he became bonded with Christine, the car, just became a sour individual and not pleasant to be around. So, yes, 1983, Stephen King classic "Christine."
Todd: {laughter} He just wasn't pleasant to be around at that point.
Mark: He wasn't. Yeah. Even to his best friend, he is really sour.
Todd: {laughter} What a mean guy.
Mark: Yeah.
Todd: Well, sour we look out for not only because of the color and the variation, but of course the stinker cup, the over fermented cup. Acetic acid or vinegar. These are traits that the sour physical defect will lean towards. These are also an issue from ripe cherries, or overripe cherries I should say. These can also be issues presented during processing, wet processing specifically, due to over fermentation. So definitely one to look out for. And again, it is a 1 to 1 full equivalent primary defect. The full sour... If you find one in a 350 gram sample, it would disqualify it for SCA's specialty coffee grade. Moving on, we have the unicorn of defects. And that is not because it is a lovable mystical creature. It's because it is very unlikely, at least in consuming countries, to be found. This is fungus damage. What movie are we associating fungus with?
Mark: Well, this was a tough one because it you know, you think about fungus as a horror medium, it doesn't really... There's not a lot that leaps to mind. But I did some digging with my research team here, and we found a fantastic movie. {laughter} The 2018 horror movie called "Annihilation." And there's a death. There's a mutant fungus that's killing people. And there is a horrific death scene in a pool where a fungus has wiped out a man. He's like half there, recognizable, and half fungus. Well worth seeing. You could YouTube clip just that scene alone and get the idea of it. But it does fit the look and feel, the appearance of the same beans that are fungal damaged in coffee. So the 2018 thriller "Annihilation."
Todd: And I have to imagine with 2018, this must be a gruesome scene.
Mark: Oh, yeah. It's great. It's wonderful.
Todd: {laughter} Oh, man. Fungus damage. So again, the unicorn of the effects here, because we typically don't see it. The reason being, fungus is one of the only physical defects that will spread not only within a sample, but within inventory. So if you do find fungus, look out. The way you can tell that you're looking at fungus... You might find colors similar to sour, maybe some white mildew associated with it, but the the real definitive characteristic of fungus is that there is a growth on the seed itself, meaning, you know, it's raised, it looks pretty angry. And, you know, this, of course, comes from poor storage conditions. Cup qualities are disgusting, fermentation, musty, moldy, phenolic... Just everything you do not want in a nice coffee. And again, if and when you stumble across this, take action to separate the coffee that you're finding it within, because it can, under poor conditions, spread to nearby materials. So fungus.
Mark: And have you come across that a lot and cupping, Todd?
Todd: Truthfully, no. And I would never call it, obviously on the cupping side, you might find it manifesting as phenol or...
Mark: Mold or mildew, yeah.
Todd: And most likely, you're most likely to see it, unfortunately, I don't mean to call out an origin for telling people they will find it, because that's of course never true, but the places you'd you'd be most likely to see it are Indonesian coffees in particular.
Mark: Yeah. Yes.
Todd: Just for how the trade and the value chain is exchanging coffee and the high moisture that it spends a significant amount of time within. So yeah, the times that I've come across this and been able to then you know, bring it physically to the lab to teach with has been when I've taken mill floor sweepings and graded these out.
Mark: Interesting.
Todd: And totally non-romantic unless you're really into coffee quality and understanding to the process organically that are gonna go on when coffee is degrading. But yeah, otherwise it's really unusual. I mean, you just don't see it, and it just doesn't come up because the coffee has to be, you know, at a pretty extreme moisture for an unusual amount of time. And, you know, people who are taking care of coffee, owning coffee, trading coffee, milling, they do a great job. And this is often avoided for how serious it is. So if you do stumble upon it, and that's not your coffee, you know, keep your distance, because that is not something you want to fool around with.
Mark: True.
Todd: 1 to 1 is a full primary or category one defect, one bean in a 350 gram sample, though it's unlikely you'd find just the one with this particular defect because of its spreading organic sort of living nature. But one would be enough to disqualify the coffee. So moving on, we have everyone's favorite. This has created many a story. I've probably sat at numerous campfires, at roaster guild retreats and over the years and talked about foreign matter. What have you found in your coffee? My goodness, the things everything from like cinder blocks to, you know, bullet shell casings. It's crazy. But foreign matter is exactly as it sounds, something that is in the coffee that should not be there. What do you have for us, Mark?
Mark: Well, I have the the classic John Landis film, "The Last Werewolf in London," because for the British, that American traveller turning into a werewof... werewolf, sorry, was a foreign matter. {laughter} The delivery. I blew it on the delivery.
Todd: {laughter} That's genius. I mean, the delivery was pretty funny, too. But, hey, we got to give you one from time to time.
Mark: Yes, you do.
Todd: And it's good. I mean, I'm sure the listeners are happy to know that Mark Inman is only human.
Mark: That's true.
Todd: Just let that sink in. Everybody be glad. Be glad. Foreign matter. What do we typically see, Mark? What have you typically seen in your samples that would disqualify a coffee for foreign matter?
Mark: Well, yeah, most people get chips of concrete from the patios, rocks, you do see sticks a lot of the time. That's the average. I would say that rocks are going to be the predominant thing. You will. It's not an if, it's an always you're going to see these if you're a roaster. It does encourage you to look at things like de-stoners and rare earth magnets. If the rocks themselves have any type of metallic content to trap that before it gets into grinders and things where it can really cause problems down the line. But yeah, mostly sticks, rocks... There was a interesting Roasters Guild retreat discussion on foreign matter. The weirdest things people have found and the two that came up were mummified frog, an entire frog, and a human finger that was also dried and mummified.
Todd: {laughter} Man, if that's not spooky, what is?
Mark: Yeah, exactly.
Todd: Horrible. Yeah. I mean not to laugh at someone's clear dismay, but wow.
Mark: Yeah. Yeah.
Todd: With some of the milling equipment you see on the origin side, I mean it's no surprise that there would be unfortunately some.... If user operation/operator error comes into play, I mean that's unforgiving stuff.
Mark: I'm just thinking who had their finger lopped off and just said, "Oh, well, let's get this treated. Forget where the finger went. That's irrelevant," and walked away. And then it ended up in a bag and sewn up and shipped. I'd love to know the backstory on that one.
Todd: It's interesting you bring that up because I think about it from a completely different perspective where I'm like, "Aw, man. Yeah, we can't send that 15 bag out into that mill because we won't know if it could come out." Right?
Mark: Right.
Todd: I mean, a lot of these mills are so big that it's like to even put like 50 sacks of coffee through and know that you're gonna get it back is a question mark. So, I mean, you know, needle in a haystack.
Mark: That is true.
Todd: Finger...
Mark: Finger in a sack of coffee.
Todd: {laughter} It's like feels oddly good to laugh about that. Moving on...
Mark: But what's surprising about it, and I'll tell you what the foreign matter thing is, one foreign matter is one full defect. And it is very, very common in coffee. And so you think about how many coffees are, you know, statistically taken out of specialty grading based on this. It would be a pretty high amount if you were to really be a stickler about it.
Todd: Well, and this brings up a really important sort of value that the grader has to bring to the table or bring to the lab, so to speak. You know, it's the spirit of the law versus the letter of the law.
Mark: Yeah.
Todd: You know, this is... You're talking about a sample that, if taken properly, is going to be drawn from a minimum of 10%, the number of packages, bags, cartons, et cetera, that the lot has been stored in. It's aggregated, and it's representative of the whole. And if you, you know, pull those 350 grams that might have one of the only little fragments of patio or stick, that is the same size, density and shape as a coffee bean and makes it through the the mechanical sorting, it's a really unfortunate thing.
Mark: Yeah.
Todd: But you have to hold that intention with the fact that if you put your coffee out in your super premium brand and a roast, sorry...a retailer breaks a grinder on a stone or stumbles upon a coffee that their customer is looking at with a confused look saying, "Well, why are there sticks in my coffee?" You know, there's a brand sort of defamation impact that is real. So, you know, that's why I think SCA would call this a 1 to 1 primary defects, or one instance in 350 grams would disqualify the coffee. But, you know, you have to also be practical and think real world coffee as a buyer.
Mark: Sure.
Todd: A good tension. But moving on, we have dried cherry or pods. Now really important here... We'll get into the Category 2 related defects, hull and husk. But in this case, a dried cherry or pod is definitively so because the seed itself is intact inside the material. So you could have a pod that is broken on one side. If the seed as encased this is definitively a cherry or pod. And these are full, 1 to 1 full equivalent category 1 defects for the potential of over fermented, moldy, damp or phenolic flavors that they can present. Of course, in addition, the appearance and the roasting, the roasting impact can be significant. So where did you associate us on the movie scale, Mark?
Mark: Well, this one was easy for me because this one... There is a movie that scared the crap out of me as a child. I'm not going to the... I know you want to say it's the 1956 version because of my age. But it actually is the 1978 remake. Donald Sutherland in "Invasion of the Body Snatchers." Because these were pod people. A terrifying movie to me as a child. I could still remember the scenes with the pods and the people coming out of the pods and just how horrifying that movie was. The interesting thing about that movie, if you had seen it and had forgotten, Leonard Nimoy was in that movie, and a very, very young Jeff Goldblum was in that film.
Todd: Wow. OK. I didn't know we had the opportunity...
Mark: And I think it's pre-"Big Chill." It may have been his first movie, as far as I know.
Todd: Wow. Mark, you are endearing the audience, I'm sure. I mean, you're so human this episode. You've experienced fear?
Mark: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Todd: I had no idea. This is crazy.
Mark: As a young lad in the theaters.
Todd: I mean, it's been a long time.
Mark: It's been a long time. I've been dead inside for years since then. {laughter} But, no back then, yes, I had emotion and human range.
Todd: It's strange to think.
Mike: You've been listening to The Exchange, presented by Olam Specialty Coffee, hosted by Mark Inman and Todd Mackey, directed by Mike Ferguson. Our opening theme was "No Coffee Here" by Boo! Our closing theme "No Coffee" by KRTX. All music is used under Creative Commons. Thank you for listening. And we'll see you next time for Part 2 of Scary Defects. And now, your postscript.
Todd: {laughter} I'm just going to picture Mike looking at me. Mike is just looking at me over the monitor as he does most days,. And I'd have to just laugh because I'm just so scared. {laughter}
